Roger Southam, the controversial chairman of the Leasehold Advisory Service, told the BBC today that it was not the quango’s job to alert ministers to the leasehold houses scandal.
Mr Southam said that LEASE was not a lobbying organisation and that it was tasked with giving impartial advice to all in the sector.
Asked why the Leasehold Advisory Service did not step in to prevent developers selling houses and flats with doubling ground rents which are now unsellable, Mr Southam said that was not LEASE’s remit.
“So, this wasn’t one for you?” asked Winifred Robinson, on the BBC R4 You & Yours programme.
Roger Southam replied: “At that point in time, no.”
The interview followed a report about Cath Williams, a Taylor Wimpey leasehold house owner of a £150,000 property in Ellesmere Port who is caught up in the doubling ground rent scandal.
Miss Williams, who only enjoyed five years on the “low” £295 a year ground rents, is facing £590 a year to the anonymous investor owners of her freehold.
She is one of the founders of the National Leasehold Campaign Facebook group, which has more than 3,000 members and which will be addressing the All Party Group on leasehold reform on April 19.
Labour MP Jim Fitzpatrick, APPG joint chairman and a patron of the Leasehold Knowledge Partnership, told the programme that there were now more than 70 members of the APPG.
He has told the housing minister Gavin Barwell:
“The APPG is still very concerned by some of the practices of LEASE and do not believe the organisation is working in the best interests of leaseholders who require help across the country.”
Winifred Robinson then asked Roger Southam in a live interview why the Leasehold Advisory Service has been inactive over the leasehold houses scandal.
She asked:
“But you did not spot this growing did you? And you did not nip it in the bud? You did not say to developers, who you advise in your seminars, that this is a bit dodgy? That’s a bit difficult for the people who buy these homes and who are now unable to sell them on.
Roger Southam:
“Right, we are not there for lobbying. We don’t give advice –“WR:
“You are there for advice. You are an advisory service.”Roger Southam:
“Yes, but developers don’t come to us.”WS:
“Property managers come to you, don’t they?”Roger Southam:
“Yes, but property managers don’t get involved in the development process and don’t get involved in the fixing of the ground rent.”WS:
“So, this wasn’t one for you?”Roger Southam:
“At that point in time, no.
In fact, Mr Southam, former owner of Chainbow, is one property manager who has got involved in ground rent issues, offering his services to freeholders to “maximise ground rent opportunities”.
Mr Southam made a distinction between the Leasehold Advisory Service’s previous passive role, and its instruction in February by housing minister Gavin Barwell:
“To be solely, and unapologetically, on their [leaseholders’] side.”
Mr Barwell also promised sufficient funding for the organisation to free it from offering paid-for courses to freeholders and their advisors, some of which have been described as “dodgy” by veteran MP Sir Peter Bottomley.
Mr Southam said: “There is a lot that has been said and written, and put out into the public domain, that is completely misleading to people.”
He added: “ In terms of our change going forward, we’ll see how we manage with DCLG and we’ll see the shape of the organisation. And I hope the shape of the organisation will look that we can be active in lobbying, we can be active in marketing and working in the best interest of the leaseholders.”
LKP is to contact Lord Young, formerly the Tory MP Sir George Young, who set up the Leasehold Advisory Service in 1992, to establish whether this extreme passive role of the quango was what was envisaged.
LKP will also contact former CEO Peter Haler, who established the organisation and was known for a robust interventionist approach to leasehold controversies.
In February, MP Justin Madders asked the housing minister in the Commons:
“In order to regain leaseholders’ confidence, will Ministers agree to an urgent review into the suitability of Mr Southam to continue as chair?”
https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/mp-justin-madders-calls-chair-lease
The programme can be heard here:
The full transcript of Roger Southam’s interview with Winifred Robinson can be read below:
Roger Southam
Right, I think we need to unpick some things to start with. The leasehold Advisory Service was set up in 1992 off the back of the Enfranchise Act which came in in the same year. It was there as advisory service. It has never been there as a lobby organisation.
Winifred Robinson
But, nonetheless, you are in receipt of public money to advise leaseholders and this disaster unfolded on your watch.
RS:
There is a lot that has been said and written, and put out into the public domain, that is completely misleading to people. I need to explain to people where we are coming from, what we’re doing and what is changing. I will get to that point, but I do need to, please, to set the scene.
So, in terms of the advisory service we have historically been there for all parties, be they leaseholders or property managers etc to give advice and guidance and try to improve and professionalise the marketplace.
In terms of where we are now, in February the housing minister announced that there would be a change in our remit and we would be there solely for the benefit of leaseholder.
It is only now that the chief exec is in discussion with DCLG over that change.
So, in terms of commercial activity, in what the housing minister announced in February, that has made a change to us and our remit. While I was brought in as chairman two and a half years ago, the remit was to go down a commercial route to actually fund to give free advisory services to leaseholders, but gain the commercial funding.
There was a remit and that’s what we have been working. That is now changing, and I’m pleased to say that we are getting funding from the government. We can stop the commercial activity, and that will allow us to focus only on the leaseholders.
WR:
But you have always had some government funding ,haven’t you?
RS:
We have had government funding, indeed. But the remit of free advice to leaseholders, which we have always given, we will always give – and we have been handling about a million Leaseholders a year in advice online and on the phone –
WR
But you did not spot this growing did you? And you did not nip it in the bud? You did not say to developers, who you advise in your seminars, that this is a bit dodgy? A bit difficult for the people who buy these homes and be unable to sell them on.
RS:
Right, we are not there for lobbying. We don’t give advice –
WR
You are there for advice. You are an advisory service.
RS:
Yes, but developers don’t come to us.
WS:
Property managers come to you, don’t they?
RS:
Yes, but property managers don’t get involved in the development process and don’t get involved in the fixing of the ground rent.
WS:
So, this wasn’t one for you?
RS:
At that point in time, no. In terms of how we sit.
Now, in terms of our change going forward, we’ll see how we manage with DCLG and we’ll see the shape of the organisation. And I hope the shape of the organisation will look that we can be active in lobbying, we can be active in marketing and working in the best interest of the leaseholders.
To answer one point, there are leaseholders and there have been leaseholders on the board. I am actually a leaseholder myself and I am actually in Jim’s constituency, and he well knows I am a leaseholder. So it is a bit rich, perhaps I am the wrong sort of leaseholder …
WS:
That is not the same, is it, that an individual happens to own a lease? That is not the same as putting a representative body on your board. There are active representative bodies who do good quality research and lobbying. Should you not have had one of them?
RS:
Right, Winifred, then we are on a different coordinate again. In terms of an arms length body, there are very set criteria across government, that Jim will well know, of how arms’ length bodies boards are picked and chosen. They do not have any representative bodies in any shape or form on any of them.
So, in terms of how the board operates, the board is there working under the seven Nolan principles. We operated rigorously and studiously to those principles. We care passionately about what we do. We have a fantastic chief executive and a fantastic team at the Leasehold Advisory Service and over the 21 years we have been giving great advice and we will continue to.
Related posts:
LEASE chair Roger Southam launched complaint to Parliamentary Standards Commissioner against Sir Peter Bottomley and Jim Fitzpatrick (and LKP, naturally enough)
National Leasehold Campaign tells Roger Southam to resign from LEASE
Roger Southam should not be LEASE chair, leaseholder tells housing minister
The sector fights back … er, deploying LEASE chair Roger Southam
Motion of no confidence in Roger Southam as LEASE chair
DCLG stakeholders hear of ‘calamitous’ Law Commission report on exit fees
Roger Southam – seems just like listening to Sean Spicer
A prize to the person who spots the most factual errors. The 1992 enfranchisement act is a good place to start
Indeed! Our very own ‘Spicer’.Blimey that really was car crash radio- pure gobbledygook. Bit surprising because I’m sure pretty sure he was reading from a script- I believe I heard him turn the page a couple of times….No ‘Polished Silver Fox’ he.
What a complete white wash from Roger.
I think we can recall the mention of this leasehold scandal for residential houses being mentioned by me and others around 2 years ago at a leaseholder round table meeting in London.
https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/outrageous-persimmon-builds-leasehold-houses-for-the-never-ending-income-stream
I specifically commented in that meeting, that this was a ticking time bomb waiting to happen and I do believe Roger Southam was at that meeting, and if he wasn’t (which I am sure he was) there was a member of his team in attendance.
So how dare he say on record that he was not aware of this impending issue?
I asked DCLG about Help to Buyers not being told at point of sale about doubling ground rents and obvious future problems. DCLG replied ‘ buyers are protected by the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and can get advice from LEASE ! Nothing to worry about then.
‘Not technically illegal but against the spirit of the law’. Statement of the …obvious.
So DCLG and LEASE must know developers are misselling and not treating customers fairly and brazenly ignore the Housing Minister’s words ‘help leaseholders’.
There are thousands of Help to Buy new builds in London with sales staff misleading purchasers. Try contacting some of these developments and see for yourselves the level of either incompetence or deceipt that takes place at point of sale.on the subject of charges.
I worry for the young inexperienced purchasers who have no Housing Ombudsman or regulator to oversee what is a corrupt self regulating money machine for the professionals.
Roger Southam apparenty doesn’t have a conflict of interest and DCLG say don’t worry.
So that was Roger Southam on the radio was it?
My mistake, for a moment I thought I was listening to the Head of Public Relations for United Airlines!
Roger says he works to the NOLAN principles, which actually says that “Organisations should work solely in the public interest.”
I think that Roger has got it confused with the Nolan Sisters, who had the following two hits.
1 Don’t Make Waves
2 Every Home Should Have One. (He must have thought they meant a Lease.)
Oh very good MH. I think you win the prize!!
There’s a lot more alternative facts than that to spot..
1) The 1992 Enfranchisement Act – it does not exist.
2) ……
3) ………
4……………
5………………
……………………………
Maybe Mr Southam was thinking about the Nolan Sister principles.
1) Ego
2) A bad sense of dress
3) Vanity
4) Multiple web sites dedicated to yourself
5) Membership of slightly dodgy groups
6) Some rather odd ideas and maybe a belief in snake oil
7) Singing the same tune time and time again by changing the words slightly.
Read this http://newsontheblock.com/news-opinion/raising-the-leasehold-experience for a nice roundtable at which no leaseholders were represented, just one variety of fox or other discussing the welfare of chickens.
What great list of ideas they came up with for improving things:
More education for chickens
Advice on how to change foxes more easily
Better training for foxes
Measuring what matters to chickens
Highlighting good behaviour by foxes
Being transparent in accounting for the effect of foxes on chickens
Get regular feedback — don’t wait for the AGM to squawk about missing eggs
Really, it would make a cat laugh.
As Upton Sinclair almost said
He said a man, but as we know, the foxes are of both sexes. And, I might add, a fox in a bow tie is still a fox.
Louis XIV’S finance minister, Jean-Baptiste Colbert, believed
When the foxes are having roundtable discussions because the chickens are beginning to make too much noise you know they are worried, and they need to be kept worried.
Too bad it’s too long ago for most to remember, but there were lots of Dr Foxes (including a few with bow ties) waxing lyrical once about a National Health Service couldn’t possibly be introduced and they were resolute in their opposition, until Nye Bevan “stuffed their mouths with gold”.
Personally, I think the French had a better idea. And I have no doubt that if the English finally wake up and revolt against the grotesque and growing levels of inequality and the rigging of affairs in their favour by the “have mores” — even as they spout with cynical dishonesty about a country that works for everyone — leasehold will be something historians pay attention to, as they do now to serfdom and slavery.
It has been abolished everywhere else but the foxes do not want these ideas to gain currency in England and Wales. There will be more roundtables and talk about chicken coops that work for everyone. Maybe a bit less debeaking and some more humane plucking. .
The foxes don’t want to be reminded of the grocer’s daughter (as they loved to dismiss her) who said:
Margaret Thatcher 8 Oct 1982 (http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/105032)
Why is it that the UK has an NHS, which works for everyone, and leasehold, which works for the selected few? The simple answer is that the biggest freeholders had more gold than the medical professionals ever did and they’ve been able to use it to ensure they go getting more and more.
Oh MH, commiserations…. Martin has just introduced- ‘ The mother of all posts’ re Mr Southams lamentable debut on ‘you and yours’. Therefore, The prize has been wrenched from your grasp and is now awarded to Martin. That’s show biz- kid????
As things are the best advice for leaseholders is just not to be one. Don’t buy leasehold, become a feeeholder instead with a carte blanche to exploit everyone around you and hand out appointment like grace and favour to your mates to “manage ” the freehold. Leaseholders are a great source of income. Very simple.
If what we are all saying about Roger is correct then his Wikipedia description needs revising.
As it describes him as a leading campaigner for leasehold reform and siding with the leaseholders
“”Shome mishtake shurely?
“Leading Campaigner for leasehold reform”!!!! Shome mishtake shurely?
Does anybody know to whom we can complain to about the wiki article stating the wrong facts or, how we go about getiing the correct info in wiki
I thought Wikipedia could be amended by anyone.?.
He’s got to go, simple as that. The man is a joke. It’s blatantly obvious his loyalties lie firmly with the freeholder, not only is he married to one he’s one himself. Why would anyone expect him to cut his own throat, when it’s less pain to cut ours.
Oh, if anyone can update wiki we all might as well go in and change it to the truth.
At the moment it is full of mostly absolutely false misleading rubbish.
Might do a super wiki about myself, ha ha
With the announcement of a General Election we can assume there will be another Tory Government for the next 5 years.
If the past seven years is anything to go buy then Roger can consider his job safe, the Housing Developers will not be too disadvantaged over their leaseholds, and the freeholders and management companies, (the dodgy ones), will be free to carry on with fleecing the leaseholders.
We can expect the announcement of yet another different Housing Minister in June.
How can Roger claim LEASE was acting impartially when he has offered to help maximise ground rent opportunities. for freeholders.
Well if there is a different housing minister appointed in June I am sure that the NLC will send him/ her a copy of all correspondence that has hitherto been sent to Barwell and will of course follow up with additional letters insisting their good office Is used to remove Mr Southam as Chairman of LEASE. The pressure must be relentless on the housing minister to rectify this travesty!
Nearly a decade ago, Campaign against retirement leasehold exploitation was founded by a small group of people who had grave concerns about Leasehold issues.
I was one of them – I singlehandedly founded the Campaign against retirement leasehold exploitation website and was responsible for early publication, via mainstream newspapers and two websites, of a lot of the issues that continue to be major problems for leaseholders. These include the well publicised problem of ground rent doubling, and right to manage matters that are being considered regularly by an APPG with major input from the Leasehold Knowledge Partnership.
Back in 2010, Campaign against retirement leasehold exploitation organised various roadshows for leaseholders to come along and air their concerns and Roger Southam appeared at one of them – to answer questions from leaseholders – he was affable, quirky and had in depth experience of residential management in the leasehold sectors.
However, Roger was never a campaigner for leaseholder interests and his Wiki profile is utterly misleading
He was running Chainbow, not a campaign. I stood in the General Election of 2010 on a platform of Leasehold Reform – there was no sign of any support from him. He was never part of Campaign against retirement leasehold exploitation.
A roundtable meeting of all the people in the industry was held at the Chainbow offices on March 1 2010. The objective of the meeting, which had been called by Campaign against retirement leasehold exploitation, was to gauge whether getting all the bodies together – for the very first time – could make a difference.
Those present included myself, Roger, FPRA, the recently formed Property Standards Board, RICS, Property Week, RTMF, ARMA, ARHM, the Housing Ombudsman, the LVT plus Grange, Millstream, James Charles of the Times and Nic Shulman of News on the Block.
This is from the minutes of the meeting written by Alex Cropley of Chainbow:
“All present agreed one code of conduct should be produced by ARHM, ARMA and RICS covering the private, social, retirement and general leasehold sectors. Appendices can be added for specific sectors. BPF agreed to supply their legal advisors to look over the Codes of Conduct and provide advice. The DLGC should sign-off the code. Timescale: as soon as possible (ideally within three to six months).”
No progress with this code was EVER made as a result of this meeting. It soon became obvious that there was no real appetite for change.
Here is just one example of an email from a leaseholder, received by LKP in March 2011 – a question from the son of a resident living in a Chainbow managed building:
“Could you possibly give us all an idea of what the average Maintenance Charge per flat is? Our block moved to Chainbow in 2009 after hearing a pundit recommend them on Radio 5. It turns out that the pundit was the CEO of Chainbow! And since they took over our charges have increased by 59% (2008 – 2011).
This year they have added £11,000 to the charge saying that British Gas added a penalty to the Electricity contract because we changed Managing Agents in 2009.”
Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds it seems back then and still continuing to do so now – the only difference being that Chainbow is currently part of the very wealthy company, Savills.
There are still no leaseholders on the board of Lease despite there being two longstanding vacancies – and there is scant evidence that the behaviour of the managing agents or the freeholders is being curbed in any way by Lease’s actions..
The growing news, radio and TV coverage just goes to show how much the industry is still biased towards the developers but hopefully the tide is beginning to turn. Many many more people now understand the pitfalls of buying leasehold. The developers are slowly realising they have been rumbled. The way all the different Leaseholder groups are coming together as a cohesive force and using social media to fight for change gives me great optimism for the future.
Good luck at the APPG tomorrow. I hope the GE announcement does not have a detrimental effect on the proceedings.
It’s good to see Melissa back contributing on here, she worked very hard to get Campaign against retirement leasehold exploitation up and going.
Let’s hope we do not get a repeat of the situation of 2010, when after that meeting there was some hope in the pipeline. Only for Grant Shapps the newly appointed Housing Minister to kick it all into touch.
With all the Government emphasis on Brexit and the reluctance to rock the boat I fear it could happen again.
A hundred or so complaints from Leaseholders will make little difference, previous Housing Ministers and the DCLG will have had hundreds already over the past 7 years.
I think it will take direct action to make a difference.
Thank you Melissa for an excellent and informative insight. I am fairly new to the gameship of the leasehold world and after conducting some research to help me understand why the cost of lease extensions are so expensive, I have come to the conclusion that a subconscious bias against leaseholders and vested interests have influenced the design of the leasehold law for once one gets to grip with the terminology and the extortionate cost of lease extensions it is clear that the law has been designed for the benefit of freehold investors and leaseholders are viewed as second class citizens. I personally am of the view that leaseholders should be treated with dignity and respect and freed from what is a form of enslavement to an overlord and his agents and the best way to achieve it is to convince Parliament and the government that the law is unjust and unworthy of a body of public servants. It is time for Parliament to act in the public interest and liberate leaseholders from all forms of leasehold enslavement and legalised extortion.
If our PM really does have a vision for a fairer society that works for all and not just the privileged few then she (or whoever wins the next General Election) can start by liberating leaseholders and bringing fairness to a system that is blatantly unfair, unjust and immoral. The conscience of Parliament needs to be pricked and awakened. So, keep up the good work Melissa, LKP and the APPG. It is the truth that will set leaseholders free, so keep on speaking the truth with wisdom and respect to those in power. Remember, the Berlin Wall had eventually to come down so keep plugging away. There you go. Thought for the day. Time for a cup of tea.
“It is time for Parliament to act in the public interest and liberate leaseholders from all forms of leasehold enslavement and legalised extortion.” it sure is and if we had a real democracy this would be happening right now. Owner occupiers should have legal status and control over the management of our homes.
It’s time to act now, every year that passes makes our lease shorter and our position weaker. Every leaseholder in the country should contact their MP to get their views on this.
Funny isn’t it how the places that voted for Brexit are the only places where leasehold tenure survives and inequality is stark: England and Wales. (income growth worst in the EU after Greece).
Funny how often you read about the exploitation of leaseholders in the Brexit supporting press (as in, almost never).
Your freeholder steals your lunch and says “Oh look, a squirrel, I mean an immigrant!”.
Hold on:
London is 50% leasehold and voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU.
The silver bow tied Savills fox is badly damaging the reputation of LEASE & the DCLG. Leasehold abuse is fully embedded in Rip Off Britain. He must go. Leasehold must be abolished & Fairness made a guiding principle.
Who thought it a good idea to have a director of Savills running LEASE ?
Roger and out.
Roger Southam followers might like to know the Bow Tie originated among Croation mercenaries during the Prussian war.
It is said that the Bow Tie hints at “Intellectualism real or FEIGNED”
The Bow Tie was worn as a way of “Broadcasting an AGGRESSIVE lack of concern for what others think”
So in the case of Mr Southam his Bow Tie is not merely for fashion!
Who’d have thunk it??? I thought chaps wore a bow tie because they were lacking in another department……. PERSONALITY of course!!!
Katie Raisbeck the excellent founder of NLC is addressing the APPG today and will be personally handing Mr Southam who I assume will be in attendance, a letter from the 3’3000 NLC campaigners requesting that he step down as a chairman of LEASE. Watch this space……..
Roger did not attend – he may be getting wind of the fact that he is not the most popular person on planet leasehold. The letter was given to Anthony Essien of Lease with a request that he hand deliver it. I wonder what Roger said when he opened it?
Oh well, If the Bow Tie Fits!!!! I believe that Mr Southam should grow a spine. I think it a good idea for the NLC to write another letter to Roger voicing its disappointment that he did not attend the APPG and clarifying why he should go and go NOW. CC Barwell et al.
Wouldn’t it be nice if Roger Southam quit Lease and worked for prison reform (preferably from the inside!)
I would love to hear the sound of Roger Southam working on the Chainbow Gang!
Direct action to make a difference?? Ok, who is willing to protest outside the office of DCLG? Who will demonstrate outside the office of LEASE ( wherever it is ?) C’mon everybody, let’s make a difference and take direct action. I’m game- are you?
I don’t think a peaceful protest outside the LEASE office in Salisbury Square will have much affect.
Temporarily withholding payment of Ground Rent to the Freehold Companies would.
As I have suggested before, these GR payments could be made in full and on time, into a holding account set up by someone like Campaign against retirement leasehold exploitation/LKP or another honest fair minded organisation. (Not LEASE)
And then paid to the Freehold companies once a fair and reasonable solution has been agreed by all parties.
The interest on the Capital could go to the organisation who sets up this account.
Give it a trial run on a few leasehold developments.